“There are basically two things in my life that have held my interest for longer than anything else. One is music, and the other is programming. And I think they're actually kind of the same in an important way. And the thing that makes them the same is what I think keeps me interested in them, which is that they are both rigorously analytical and creative at the same time.” - Ben Orenstein

Watch this episode on YouTube

Ben Orenstein:
Ben's Company, Tuple
Ben on Twitter: @r00k

Brian Casel:

Brian’s company, ZipMessage

Brian on Twitter: @casjam

Thanks to ZipMessage

ZipMessage (today’s sponsor) is the video messaging tool that replaces live calls with asynchronous conversations.  Use it free or tune into the episode for an exclusive coupon for Open Threads listeners.

Quotes from this episode:

Quote 1:

Ben: He raised my mom and her sisters and like a household, there was a lot of singing, singing. It was a big part of them. And also they are there's a big chunk of my mom's family as Welsh and Wales have like a big singing culture to it as well. Hmm. So the end result was I grew up in a household where singing was just a common thing.

Brian: Um, so the family is just like breaking out in song.

Ben: Just kind of. Yeah, like we were just, yeah, my mom would sing stuff. She would sing songs to me. We would sing songs together. Like, we would sing a cappella Christmas carols at Christmas School. Um, there's like a lot of, a lot of singing going around. Um, and when I was pretty, I was probably like eight maybe. Maybe even younger.

Brian: Um, my parents put me on piano lessons, so I was like, getting exposed to piano from a pretty early age, and I studied for that for maybe four or five years.

Brian: You know, my mom forced me to, to start with piano lessons, and I, I was, I sort of had a good feel for it, but I also hated going to lessons, and I, and I wasn't really into learning classical stuff, but, like, looking back on it, like, as a foundational instrument, I feel like you can't do better than piano because you're like, literally looking at music theory, like on the keyboard, you know?

Ben: Yeah.

Brian: And now with my, my daughter is eight years old and she's getting into a piano, and like, I'm teaching her a thing or two on guitar, too, but like it, a lot of that doesn't make sense until you get a feel for a piano. I feel like, you know.

Ben: Yeah.

Brian: It's a great start.

Ben: It's so yeah, it has, like, a nice visual element to it where it's like, you can kind of see the intervals in front of you, and they get wider and smaller and. Yeah, I still sort of thing, like, I think even when I'm a sight reading vocal stuff, I think I'm still kind of translating it to a piano in my head.

Brian: Yeah, for sure.

Quote 2:

Brian: And you know, it's such a weird thing with music, how it runs in the family.
 
Ben: Mm-hmm. 

Brian: I mean, it's and it's so crazy, like, literally see it. I mean, my grandfather, you know, was he directed an orchestra, you know, and then and then my... mom and other grandfather played piano a little bit. I had a pretty natural feel for it from the beginning with both piano and guitar.

Brian: And then now with my daughter. And she's only learning the very basics of, of like in terms of, like, lessons, but she's in there making up her own songs and just has such a natural ear and feel for it. Like, you could just see it from day one. And it's just incredible to see, you know, it's like literally in the genes, you know, I just like something about it.

Ben: Go back and I go back and forth between how much of that is like inherent versus your exposure. Like, if you do think there's a lot to like about growing up in a household where you get piano lessons at a single-digit age. Yeah. And then lo and behold, you're 15. You're like, oh yeah, I have a knack for music.

Ben: It's like, well, you know, you invested hundreds of hours before you're even a teenager. Like, I know there is no certainly is. You know, there's some of it, right? Like something if there's a natural ability on there, too.

Brian: For sure. And I think the lessons and practicing go along. I also think that just listening like being exposed to hearing lots and lots of music on a daily basis, is yeah, is a huge, huge one. You know.

Quote 3:

Brian:
With my work, I'm always thinking about the future or whatever it might be or worrying about this or that. With that, it's like, I mean, I'm in a zone and I've tuned out and I'm just playing. And just the sheer number of hours of being in that state makes you a better player, you know?

Ben:
Mhm. Yeah. I think it's, I think to do music well you have to be in the moment. So it is kind of meditative like that or like it has an effect on your brain. Like unless you'd, I'm just like hopelessly distracted by something really significant. If I am performing and singing or something like I am paying attention to what's going on because you have to keep paying attention to what's happening.

To do it well at all. I think there's, so there are a few things that I get out of music. What is it that I really enjoy? I enjoy performing. I enjoy putting on a performance. Like, to me, being on stage is really gratifying. Making something impressive or interesting or moving to happen on a stage I find just, like, really enjoyable. I like giving the audience a cool experience that feels really fun to me. I like being proud of the thing I put out there. Um, but there's also this other thing that I've been kind of on for a while. Um, I noticed that there are basically two things in my life that have held my interest for longer than anything else.


One is music and the other is programming. Yeah. And I think they're actually kind of the same in an important way. And the thing that makes them the same is that what I think keeps them keeps me interested in them, which is that they are both uh, rigorously analytical and creative at the same time. 

Brian: Yeah.100%.