A music production geek out session with Harry Morton
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Brian Casel: [00:00:00] Hey, it's Open Threads. It's my podcast. I'm Brian Casel. Welcome to it. I am on a quest to invite all of my founder friends who happen to also be musicians onto this show so that we can geek out about our lives away from work and the music that we try to, to make in our, in our time off.

So today is one of those episodes I invited my friend Harry Morton, onto the show to geek out about tech and music and, and music production. Harry and I both share a love of that combination of the technical side, the engineering side, and the creativity and compositional side of music. So he and I actually both went to school for music, or he calls it university over there in, in England. You know, we went to school for music production. He thought like I thought [00:01:00] we would pursue a career in recording studios and creating and producing music. Of course, we ended up making businesses on the internet.

Harry, by the way, is the founder of Lower Street. They're are podcast production agency. We actually talk all about that side of his life and work in a future episode with Harry. But in this.. Yeah, we just talked about, you know, making music as a hobby. We talked about technical music production, synthesizers, sound design, compositions, uh, instrumental music, hip hop, jazz, rock, all of it.

Really cool conversation with Harry. It makes me wanna sort of go out and spend a bunch of money on some gear that I probably won't have enough time to play with, but I still want it anyway. That's sort of the life of a hobbyist music producer these days.

As always, this show is brought to you by ZipMessage. That's my product for asynchronous messaging and communication with your clients, your coworkers. I'll tell you a thing or two about that later in the show, but for now, let's geek out about music production [00:02:00] with Harry and enjoy.

Okay, here we go. Harry Morton, how you doing, man?

Harry Morton: I'm good. I'm good. Thank you. It's gray and windy, so it's autumn here in, obviously in the UK, but other than that, we're good. Mm-hmm.

Brian Casel: uh, you're in London or, or where are you?

Harry Morton: Not anymore. I used to be, I live now in Somerset, which is like two and a half hours southwest. We're kind of a stones throw from Stonehenge, kind of,-

Brian Casel: Okay.

Harry Morton: -if you, you know, some old rocks is a useful landmark for you.

Brian Casel: Very cool. I've, I've only done the tourist thing in London. I gotta see more of, more of England.

Harry Morton: Yeah, it's good. We're famous down this side of the, the, the world. We are famous for uh, cider and cheddar cheese, so yeah, I'm not far from the town of Cheddar where, where it originates. Um,

Brian Casel: Cool.

Harry Morton: yeah, so they go,

Brian Casel: Sounds like the Vermont of of England,

Harry Morton: It's, yeah, it's not too dissimilar touch not quite such brutal winters, [00:03:00] but, you know, we don't get the skiing either, so, you know.

Brian Casel: There you go. There you go. All right. Well, we're not gonna talk about uh cheese and cider. Let's, let's talk music.

Harry Morton: Sure. Cool.

Brian Casel: Might this whole Open Threads podcast might turn into me all of my web industry friends who happen to be musicians, so we can geek out on, on music.

That,-

Harry Morton: Awesome.

Brian Casel: I would be totally fine-

Harry Morton: I love it.

Brian Casel: -with that.

Harry Morton: Great. I mean, basically when I finish up work, at the end of the day, I spend all my waking hours that aren't with a child on YouTube. I think I've completed music YouTube at this point. If there's a, if there's a video reviewing a piece of gear that I haven't seen uh, you know, I don't know.

Brian Casel: I've gone down rabbit hole so many times. yeah, my, my YouTube, you know, recommendations is full of just gear reviews and recommendations. All right, so let, let's actually get into that. So you know, there are so many different types of people who have hobbies in music. So how do you define your interest in music?

And my understanding just from the little bit that I know about you with music is other than the fact that you run like a podcast hosting or podcast production company, [00:04:00] we'll get into that in a different episode. Called Lower Street, which is, which is amazing. You guys have done awesome work. But yeah, we're gonna talk about music on this one. So, you're like into electronic music,-

Harry Morton: Mm-hmm.

Brian Casel: -beat making, synths. What, what are you into?

Harry Morton: Exactly that. So I, Like, so music has been a big part of life forever for me. So I grew up, my mom was a piano teacher. I went to school, focused on music, was terrible at anything academic and just really kind of focused on the arty stuff. Went to university and studied music technology.

So I was just doing a lot of like composition and production, but it also kind of led me into the kind of more technical side. So that's what got me into post production, which is what led me into the kind of things that eventually led to Lower Street in, in kind of the podcast side of things.

Brian Casel: What kind of music were you always into listening to?

Harry Morton: So back when I was a kid, it was pretty broad. When I was a child, my mom was like massively into classical music, but also kind of a lot of Motown and, you know, classic, classic kind of British pop stuff. [00:05:00] So I was, you know, pretty like average generic, background. But it was when I got to university that I really started to nerd out on like jazz in particular.

Like did, I was a drummer growing up and so my teacher kind of got me into Herbie Hancock and like those kind of, you know, like a lot of kind of classic funk and, and stuff like that. So I was always into like, and the music I made when I was a teenager was this like super cheesy funk stuff. Which is funny by the way cuz, I dunno if you've heard of a guy called Louis Cole, he's from LA. Super cool musician. And he basically embodies everything I wanted to be when I was 14 except, and is as lame as I was when I was 14, but just totally owns it.

Like, he's like this totally nerdy, geeky guy. Super funny, amazing music. Anyway, so that was, that's what I was into. I was into kind of like jazz and funk and all that kind of stuff. And then when I got to university, because I was like on the technical side of music, if you know what I mean, like we were into production and engineering and stuff, that's, I kind of inevitably led me down the path of synthesis and kind of being behind a laptop and that kind of electronic style of stuff.

Brian Casel: Super interesting. The funk stuff..[00:06:00] Like, for me, like I, I basically come from a background in like rock music in general

Harry Morton: Yeah. Cool.

Brian Casel: But like, I started venturing into, into jazz a little bit with guitar but like the funk side of things was always what drew me what was like, the most interesting thing about, especially like harder rock like that, that has like a funkier side to it. Like Chili Peppers,-

Harry Morton: Yep.

Brian Casel: -Rage Against the Machine, you know?

Harry Morton: Yeah.

Brian Casel: and then I, and then I got into like, hip hop and, and also like the mix of like hip hop and rock and like, a lot of that is just driven by like, you know, funk. And, and I, I went through a little phase with, with Herbie Hancock and that kind of stuff.

Harry Morton: Nice. Yeah, it's kind of exactly the same for me with like the, it inevitably led down that kind of hip hop path as well. And so for me it's like this blend of hip hop and. And kind of electronic jazz and that stuff. And it sounds like, yeah, you had kind of that, that classic rock vibe to it. Yeah, it's really cool.

Brian Casel: Yeah, for sure. So what led you to, aside from just being a musician, like when you went into school like production. Like what, what were you thinking there? Cause I, I, I went through the same path. I have a [00:07:00] degree, like a bachelor's degree in audio production.

Harry Morton: Yeah. Cool. It's the most useless degree one could ever wish to achieve.

Brian Casel: That's exactly what I learned when I, when I got into the workforce.

Harry Morton: Yeah, it was just like, I basically, when I left school I was like, well, what do I like to do? This is all I wanna do. So I guess everyone goes to university, so I guess I'll get a qualification. I think if I was, if I was able to mentor myself now, I'd say just go work in a studio and learn what the industry's actually like.

Brian Casel: Was that what you wanted to do? Like like studio or live sound-

Harry Morton: Yeah,

Brian Casel: -or,

Harry Morton: No, definitely not live sound. I was definitely more of a Like, yeah, I love live music, but it's never been like the thing that I love the most. I'm much more of kind of a nerdy headphones on, like really geek out to, to music, you know? And so that's kind of what I was always about.

And yeah, it was just, I mean, university was just an excuse to indulge my favorite thing and I just figured like I'd figure the rest out and that's kind of what happened. So I, you know, I initially thought I wanted to work in a studio, in a music production kind of environment. Quickly kind of established that I'm like not the most talented musician and I don't have [00:08:00] the best ears in the world for like, you know.. Cuz like before I went to university, the school I went to was a music school. Like, it, it had a real kind of slant towards that. And there were some like next level talented musicians who, you know, you know, perfect pitch was just table stakes for this, for these folks. You know, they're just like, they, they were music.

And so I was like really aware of like what my limitations were. And so where I kind of really thrived was that kind of nerdy middle ground of like the tech and like being experimental and like using different things in different ways. And yeah, and, and that's, you know, that's ultimately what led me to go down the kind of post production path of like, okay, maybe like this is music adjacent. I'm still using my skills here and I'm actually, I think the way that you can craft sound that's not like a musical sound in, in a creative way that tells a story is, is every bit as musical in my mind as, as kind of like making a beat kind of thing. So-

Brian Casel: So you got into like mixing and mastering,

Harry Morton: Yeah, exactly.

Brian Casel: And that whole process?

Harry Morton: Yeah. And sound design and sort of working with synthesizers to kind of think of a sound in your head and then try and make that, or.. [00:09:00] Kind of foley, which is like, you know, taking a microphone out into the wild and like recording yourself, I don't know, the obvious thing is like crunching through some leaves with your feet and recording that and then putting that to picture or whatever.

Brian Casel: Sound effects for picture. That's awesome.

Harry Morton: Exactly. Yeah.

Brian Casel: I sort of had the same path into university-

Harry Morton: Mm-hmm.

Brian Casel: -Pursuing a degree in audio production because I thought that I wanted to literally work in recording studios-

Harry Morton: Yep.

Brian Casel: -For my career. I'm the same way. I love that. I love being in a studio, whether it's a real studio or at home, like, process of creating and perfecting a full production, you know, getting every take and then, and then editing it and mixing and mastering and, and all that.

I, I do like the, the technical side of, producing and using all the tools and software and stuff like that. But one thing I did find is maybe I'm a little bit of the opposite from you, whereas like the, the music side comes more, much more naturally to me.

Harry Morton: Mm-hmm

Brian Casel: And also the creative compostition side is, is what I was always drawn to. But the audio production, [00:10:00] like having an ear for that, like really getting the frequencies perfect and getting the bass dialed in. I've, I've always sort of struggled with that.

Harry Morton: Mm-hmm.

Brian Casel: And then the other thing that I struggled with is just electronics in general. Like-

Harry Morton: Right.

Brian Casel: -I never like got, like, there was so many like, like hardcore electronic classes going through music school and it, and it was like, I didn't do well in those at all. Cause-

Harry Morton: Yeah.

Brian Casel: It was so far from actual music and it was like, you know

Harry Morton: Totally. I, I can relate. so I'm not that super far on that side of the spectrum either. Like I'm, I'm like super middle of the road on all these things. I'm like a jack of all trades, basically. That's kind of my thing. So like, we were taught not only how to how to craft sound using synthesizers, but then actually how to sort of, in the theory behind how to build a synthesizer, we use a program called Max/MSP, I dunno if you've ever heard of it. But it's like super technical and it's like programming a synth in the same way that we might program, you know, any SaaS product. But it's much more visual in, its in it's what you kind of have these little modules and you connect them. Anyway I found that just to be just that one step too far away from like the actual creation of music. I like my [00:11:00] mind of all the ideas I could up with for it was just like incredible. It was such an exciting idea. But then the thought of actually sitting down and figuring out the maths behind how to make these things interconnect and do what you want was just too, too much.

Brian Casel: One of the thing, like with sound design and synths, I, I actually got into it more recently, just in the last couple of years.

Harry Morton: Mm-hmm.

Brian Casel: Like it wasn't until my late thirties that I actually started to, to learn how, synths work and how to, how to design sounds and, and use them. And I really regret not learning about sound design when I was really in it back in my twenties, you know?

Harry Morton: Mm.

Brian Casel: I sort of just, it's weird. I was aware that it's there, it was part of the music that I was making, but I was much more into like samples and just composing stuff for, I got into uh composing music for, for film and TV and..

Harry Morton: Yeah, awesome.

Brian Casel: But just using like, like, like different sounds but not actually creating them with synths.

Harry Morton: And but I think it's so easy to get like drawn away from like if creating music's what you love, it's so easy to dive down. And this is what I do is like I, even from my hobbies, I procrastinate. Like I'll go down all these rabbit holes [00:12:00] of like, how is it made and what tools should I use? And like trying to perfect this system rather than actually making the thing.

So actually I kind of.. What you were doing is actually way better I think. It's just like, cool these are the tools I have at my disposal. Let's just do stuff.

Brian Casel: Dude. I struggle just getting sounds I've moved away from like trying to pursue music as a career and trying to be real serious about it. And you know, I'm, I'm older so it's like I, I've got this thing in the web industry, so now I'm like, it is purely a hobby. Right. So I'm curious to know how you, deal with this, cuz you, you run a full-time business well.

Harry Morton: Right.

Brian Casel: But the thing with music, creating music as a hobby is that it's... To me it's like, I could just, you know, play those guitars behind me and just pick 'em up and play for like an hour, which I do all the time.

Harry Morton: Mm-hmm.

Brian Casel: But if I'm trying to create and produce and actually like, come out with something that can be like published or something like that. We're talking about like months of deep creative work.

Harry Morton: Yeah, for sure.

Brian Casel: And then I just get so sucked into like just getting the sounds [00:13:00] and, choosing from thousands of sounds and, and using synths and dialing it in and, and buying gear and testing it out. And like I don't have the time for that, you know, like I can't just sit for two hours on a Saturday and churn out a whole, whole finished track,

Harry Morton: Right

Brian Casel: So then I'm left with like, well I can't even do that at all. Like, I could only just strum on the guitar a little bit.

Harry Morton: Man, I can so relate. Like I spent all of my twenties going, if I could just afford this gear I'd be able to make just the best music. And all I did back then was like, I'd have a job from time to time and then I'd, I would just be like at home making tunes all the time. And it was, I missed that flow state that you would get into cuz you're just like, there's nothing between you and just making music. And now I find it really hard to, to kind of context switch from work and then come back and make that music.

Brian Casel: Yeah. It's like the.. A lot of creative juices. Cuz I put all that juice-

Harry Morton: So much.

Brian Casel: -into my work. On the internet-

Harry Morton: Right. Exactly.

Brian Casel: -and it's like, I don't have anything left over to, to put into a..

Harry Morton: Totally. And, but if my 20 year old self could then look at me now that can like just turn around and go, cool, I want that synth, I'll just go buy it cuz I've got [00:14:00] the money cuz I'm like a late thirties dude with a job. Like I'd be pulling my hair out. Cause it's like the stuff I make, I basically what feel right now is that unless I can really devote myself to just nothing, but exactly like you're saying to making the perfect album that I wanted to make when I was 25, I feel like I'm, I'm kind of like one of those, those like 50 year old dudes that wear the leather jackets that wish they were in The Who back in the day and they weren't. And so now they finally have the time and capacity to do those things and I'm like, shit, am I turning into that? It's, this is what it feels like. So

Brian Casel: We definitely are, man. We are.

Harry Morton: Yeah. Like, cuz like some of the music I listen to is made by like, you know, 19 year old kids that are just like, they're at school and they're making just mind blowing stuff. And I'm like, holy crap. Like, yeah. I'm, I haven't, well and truly missed the boat here.

Brian Casel: A hundred percent man, and, and I'm literally, you know, going through YouTube, like looking reviews, like I could totally afford all, all this gear.

Harry Morton: Yeah.

Brian Casel: I, just last week I was actually gonna buy a whole bunch of, I was gonna buy a synth. I was gonna buy all, all this different stuff. And I'm like, yeah, I could afford [00:15:00] it. I could click this button on Amazon and get it sent to my house tomorrow.

Harry Morton: Yep.

Brian Casel: But I do not have the time to, get any real use out of this thing, you know?

Harry Morton: No, no. And then again, those 20 year olds that are defining genres and creating music that's never been created before are doing so with the same shit I had when I was 21, which was absolutely nothing. You know, I tell myself I need these like beautiful monitors and this incredible equipment, but actually if I was really creative and doing something different, I'd be able to do it on a shoestring. So it's uh, yeah. Anyway.

Brian Casel: I mean, what, what kind of stuff are you into making when, when you can make stuff and, and like, what, what would be like your goal when trying to create music?

Harry Morton: So right now of, I've got two young kids, a three year old and a nearly two year old. And so basically the last two years has been more or less a complete write off, but the, the youngest is now getting old enough where I, I maybe have like two minutes to rub together every now and again.

And so really the goal for me is just to get to a position where I can get back into that flow state like I said cuz [00:16:00] I, I never knew, I didn't label it a flow state back in, back when I used to do it cuz I, you know, didn't know about it. But, but that's really what it was. Like. There's just nothing between you and that creative process.

And, so now I spend so much of my time kinda like getting everything ready and like trying to get myself into the, into the zone. And really, so my only goal right now is just to make stuff. And just to be in that making process. So, yeah, ultimately I've got so many ideas of things I'd like to make, you know, records, you know, albums, eps that now we can put out across, you know... I used to just hang out on SoundCloud all day. There was an amazing community there. But now, like we can just, you know, use Distro kid and put everything up on all the different platforms right away. So you can literally make a record the same as, as it's kind of mind blowing to be honest.

Brian Casel: I miss the idea of a record. I, I like,-

Harry Morton: Yeah,

Brian Casel: I always hated the idea of like these artists just putting out like a single or even an EP with like four tracks. I'm like, I want 12 plus tracks that I can go start to finish.

Harry Morton: Totally. this is a problem I'm experiencing a lot at the moment, so I love the Spotify,[00:17:00] algorithms. I'm a, what's the word? The something-ophile you're always looking for, like the next thing. I don't like necessarily listening to the, to the same albums again and again and again. Of course I have my favorites that I come back to, but I, I'm always looking for like the new and so the Spotify kind of-

Brian Casel: I'm the opposite. I just stick to my-

Harry Morton: Are you really?

Brian Casel: -tried and true, like this stuff is, and I listen to the same stuff over and over and I,-

Harry Morton: That's awesome,

Brian Casel: Everytime I try to discover new music, I'm like, man, this is like me getting old, obviously. It's like everything today sucks. And everything from a couple decades ago is, is the best. Like, come on.

Harry Morton: Yeah, it's awesome. I mean, I agree by the way, like I am well and truly stuck in 2010. So like that is definitely true. But anyway, to your point about singles like it, that it really frustrates me cuz I love all these things that spit up new, new artists, idea, new things. But so often I'll be, oh, I love this track. Like, what's what album is this from? And I click into it and it's just a single and it's like everyone seems to be doing that in, in singles, maybe eps if you're lucky. Or there might be a B side, like B side of, of your Spotify, mp3.

Brian Casel: Yep. I've had this thing in my mind like, like that I've wanted to, I, I don't know when I'll have the time to actually [00:18:00] do this, but I, my music creation in my thirties and now forties is.. The goal is to create, I guess you, you might call it an album or like a string of tracks that I would put up on Spotify or something and, and SoundCloud, just instrumental music. I've, I've always-

Harry Morton: Yep

Brian Casel: -Been an instrumental music person.

Harry Morton: Me too. Yep.

Brian Casel: Especially when I work, I can only listen to instrumental stuff.

Harry Morton: Mm-hmm.

Brian Casel: So I would love to just create a bunch of tracks that are awesome to, to work to,

Harry Morton: Oh, cool. Yeah. Nice.

Brian Casel: Like in, in the creative zone, right? And

Harry Morton: Yep.

Brian Casel: Cuz that's. I listened to a lot when I'm working. So, and I, I did that maybe three or four years ago. When I was working in on Audience Ops and Audience Ops got to a point where it was running without me, and it was before I got into doing ZipMessage. So I, I wasn't really in startup mode anymore.

Harry Morton: Mm-hmm.

Brian Casel: I had a lot more free time and I, and I was actually spending a lot more time in my basement studio. Then I got into ZipMessage and then like all my energy just went into that and I sorta stopped

Harry Morton: Right?

Brian Casel: [00:19:00] But that would be like a goal for me is to like produce stuff that I could see myself tuning into, like on repeat while I'm working on, on the web, you know?

Harry Morton: Yeah. Awesome. I love that. It's, I've thought about doing that myself a bit as well. Like what do I like working to the, like what, what music do I get the most kind of benefit from or utility from? And like, what, is there not enough of out there already? And why don't I just go and make some of that? I think that, yeah, I'm, I'm really into that.

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Okay, back to the show.

Let's talk about gear. I mean, what, what kind of stuff, do you have lying around over there?

Harry Morton: Sure. not at, not at work. Uh, this is my, my office where I am right now. My [00:21:00] increasingly dusty desk at home, which will be getting more use. But it's not been so much I I went through a phase.. So to answer your question before, what kind of music do I make? I, I would brought up on kind of hip hop, jazz, electronic, so I'm kind of in that spot between the three.

So really into people like Flying Lotus who some folks may have heard of Hudson Mohawke. I'm trying to think of like, it's, I'm, I'm into like pretty nerdy, like niche stuff. But it's, it's really that kind of electronic instrumental hip hop stuff. J Dilla was a huge influence on all the stuff that I listened to and-

Brian Casel: I'm also into a lot of Ronald Jenkees, Ratatat.

Harry Morton: Yep, yep.

Brian Casel: Yeah, Random stuff, like I'm trying to what else. I don't know. stuff like that-

Harry Morton: yeah. Cool.

Brian Casel: -is like-

Harry Morton: Totally, that's, that's, that's my,-

Brian Casel: Like a lotta synth.. Just like heavy like composition, just like good songwriting, but it doesn't have any words is, is really interesting to me.

Harry Morton: Yeah, for sure. I absolutely love it. And yeah, obsess over that stuff. So what do I have to make it? I went through this phase, this real obsessive phase of, of like, I spend my whole day staring at a [00:22:00] screen. I want to get away from screens. Cause I, I, my, my digital audio workstation, my daw of choice is Ableton Live.

Brian Casel: Mm-hmm.

Harry Morton: So I produce everything in there. Or I did and I was like, I need to get rid of Ableton. I need to like just be on a desk with some stuff that I could with just buttons and physical knobs and just like, and do that, and that's why I've completed music, YouTube. Cause I watched all the stuff on like, which things do I buy?

Brian Casel: You're describing like my whole past two months. I, and like, I actually never got into Ableton weirdly enough, but I, I was into. Pro Tools a lot when I was younger. And then, and then Reason, and then more recently,-

Harry Morton: Nice.

Brian Casel: -when I picked it up again, I got into Logic.

Harry Morton: Yep.

Brian Casel: And a couple software since on there, Serum, I got into, and a couple other stuff like that.

Harry Morton: Cool.

Brian Casel: But I had the same thought as you like just a couple months ago now. Like-

Harry Morton: Yep.

Brian Casel: There are endless options when you're in software land on sounds and production-

Harry Morton: So many. And it's kind of depressing as well man. Cuz like when I was, sorry I'm interrupting you, but this is, I'm [00:23:00] passionate about the shit cuz my whole thing when I was early twenties was lofi, right? Because I didn't have the money so I wanted to like embrace that and make lofi hip hop. That was kind of the stuff that I was into.

So it's like really like cheap sounding but like gritty and amazing. And so that was partly cuz of the tools I was using. And sometimes I'd like take things and record them onto a cassette tape and then back into the computer to get that kind of grainy feel to it. And it was like really cool. But now there are plugins that you just like switch it on and you've just like, everything sounds exactly like that stuff that we had to go to, great lengths to create in the past.

Brian Casel: We don't have the constraints anymore.

Harry Morton: Right. So suddenly I was like, well then if I could just make anything, then like, you know, like why should I? Yeah. So my thought was let's get back to the roots. Let's like get a really nice keyboard. Let's get some synthesizers, some drum machines, and like have it all external. But what I can tell you turns out seems like you didn't make that purchase.

And before you do, I would encourage you to consider it. Because what I found was it's just another layer of like, okay, now I've gotta [00:24:00] learn this shit and I've gotta like figure out, like my goal, what I've realized after buying some of this and now subsequently putting it up on eBay, is like my goal is to get into that flow state and making music.

And actually what I'd done was remove myself from the screen. Sure. Like that's great, but actually remove myself further from that creative thing that I was seeking. Like I just spent more time going, oh, for Christ's sake, why does this MIDI not go here? And why is this audio not work? You know, it's just like way too complex.

And so actually I've just decided, screw it. It's more screen time, but it's, it's my screen time, you know?

Brian Casel: So you went back to like the, like a, like a daw?

Harry Morton: It's back to Ableton. Cause I just know I can switch it on and make stuff right now, you know?

Brian Casel: That's sort of where I landed. I mean, I still just lack the time, but part of my challenge with it was like, Alright, when I'm in Logic or when I'm, you know, I got like all these like samples and stuff, it's like I spend so many hours just picking sounds. Like there-,

Harry Morton: Mm.

Brian Casel: You know, just like clicking through like a hundred different snare drum sounds like why am I doing that when I, when I should be creating something? Right?

Harry Morton: Yeah. Totally.

Brian Casel: And so yeah, [00:25:00] like, and my thought was, I started looking into just buying like a hardware synth and then I looked at like all of 'em and I was like, well, this one's got that, but that one looks good, but it's super expensive. Do I really need that?

And then it's like, then I started looking at, you know, I'm watching TikTok with my kids and all these young kids are doing these like, looping stuff now. Right? Like,

Harry Morton: Yep. Cool.

Brian Casel: Maybe that's a way to like rapidly create-

Harry Morton: Yep

Brian Casel: -And have the limitations limitations like, you gotta just loop it and create something. Don't sit there for hours picking sounds, right?

Harry Morton: Yep.

Brian Casel: Thought about that, but yeah. Just a thought, just clicking around -

Harry Morton: Yeah,

Brian Casel: -YouTube, fantasizing,

Harry Morton: It, it, it, I know I, basically, what I'm realizing is there's no, there's no magic. Like, yeah. I dunno. Again, for me, like the goal is to get into that creative space and like we can buy all the toys-

Brian Casel: Well what kinda hardware stuff did you get into?

Harry Morton: So I got I mean this, we are really alienating our audience here, so, you know, for like, there's probably like three people of the world that'll know what we're talking about,

Brian Casel: THe three people who're actually geeks about this stuff are gonna love it. Yeah.

Harry Morton: So I'm really into Electron as a brand, if you know Electron. They've got a thing called a [00:26:00] Digatikt, which is like a little groove box. It's like this big and it's just takes samples in. Great for making beats, but you can kind of do some melodic stuff with it as well.

And it's very immediate, very kind of hands on. I'm not selling that. It's wonderful. It's a really cool thing. Then I got like, 1010music is, this brand out of America with they've a Bluebox and a Blackbox. The Blackbox is a sampler and the Bluebox is a mixer. And so those became kind of a bit of a hub, which everything went into.

And then on the kind of sound source side, I've got like a Novation Peak, which is my main synthesizer. That's wonderful thing. And a few smaller kind of hardware synths, which are, are kind of like cheaper, like things to kind of mess around with.

Brian Casel: Nice. So you record into that other box, like,

Harry Morton: Yeah. So you can record into the Bluebox. Yeah. But honestly, like like, this is something I've done over the last two years. You know, when you are, you know, woken up at 3:00 AM yet again by another child and you can't get back to sleep, so you're just like, okay, my escape is gonna be music, and then you get all this shit and you don't have the time or the energy to do it. And so I've not..[00:27:00] I haven't used any of this stuff to the extent that I should have done. Whereas again, I switch on Ableton again. I've got my Novation Peak, which I do use, and I'm just making music right away, and it's amazing, you know. So I'm really trying to cut the fat.

Brian Casel: I actually still wanna try to achieve this dream of like, record and create without using the screen. Cuz I was looking into this just a few weeks ago and I couldn't find a good-

Harry Morton: Reel-to-reel's making a comeback, man, you should get, get into tape, you know. Cuz it also forces you as a musician, it forces you to nail the take. Right. I mean, you could get into cutting tape or you could just like do the take right. And that-

Brian Casel: I mean that's why I was really looking at these like the, the loop station thing,

Harry Morton: Yep.

Brian Casel: Where it's like and I actually, that that red pedal down there is, is a looper, but that's like a one..

Harry Morton: Oh, cool. Okay.

Brian Casel: One single. loop.

Harry Morton: Yep.

Brian Casel: They make one with like five. that would enforce those like limitations. Cause I, dude, I remember a old version of myself where I the old blue Tascam 4 track recorder.

Harry Morton: Yep. Amazing.

Brian Casel: Even before, before I had that, I, I just had a regular stereo with two tape decks.

Harry Morton: Yep.

Brian Casel: You record one [00:28:00] and then you, you overdub to the other and it like loses quality -

Harry Morton: Incredible. Yeah.

Brian Casel: -every time you do it. Man, I, I missed that but then once I got the four track recorder,-

Harry Morton: Yep.

Brian Casel: -it was like, I can get ideas down fast. I'm limited to four tracks,

Harry Morton: Yep. Yep.

Brian Casel: And it's just.. It was beautiful.

Harry Morton: And it makes you commit, right? Cuz then you, so let's say you record like drums on three tracks and you bounce 'em to the fourth track so that you've got three tracks spare again. You're like, well that's my take, that's my mix. Or, you know, you make these submixes and, and it kind of just makes you, makes you do stuff. And I think, you know, again, with software it's so easy to just kind of tweak to infinity.

Brian Casel: Yep.

Harry Morton: And actually maybe what we need to do is just hit record and do it, you know.

And then

Brian Casel: even with sounds, I mean, you look at a band like if you listen to Rat, Ratatat, I don't even know if that's how you pronounce their name..

Harry Morton: It is. Yeah.

Brian Casel: They are essentially like three or four sounds. Like in terms of like their, their guitar and synths and, and drum sounds like just commit to those sounds and they, and they write all their songs using-

Harry Morton: Right,

Brian Casel: -using same sounds.

Harry Morton: Right.

Brian Casel: Like they're not reinventing their sound with every, with every [00:29:00] track, you know? And I'd love to get to that point where it's just like I commit to these are my favorite sounds. Let's write 12 songs.

Harry Morton: Right, and it's your signature. It's your, it's got your, your, DNA in it. And I love that cuz it's funny cuz again, the hip hop thing.. A lot of the hip hop thing is always about the the new cuz you're looking for that new sample, right? Cause back in the day people would be digging through the record shops looking for like that RnB track from the seventies that no one yet has sampled and creating something that is fresh.

And so there was always this desire to find new drum sounds, new samples, new textures, new kind of, you know, sources. But actually as I think about some of the favorite producers that I listen to, they use that same electric piano sound on basically every record and they use that same kind of lead sound or that the bass is very similar from track to track.

And I actually, I think just developing a, palette as an artist, if I could be so grand as to call myself that, I think would be just like actually a really good thing. And, and again, like just like you said, those constraints do force you to be creative in other ways. And so I think if like, Okay cool, how do I make four tracks that are distinct and unique, but using the, [00:30:00] the same sound sources? I think that's a really interesting challenge.

Brian Casel: Man, this is dangerous now. Now, just having this conversation makes me want to spend a bunch-

Harry Morton: Do it,

Brian Casel: -of money on random gear-

Harry Morton: Do it

Brian Casel: -that I will never have time to, to use.

Harry Morton: Oh.

Brian Casel: Oh. Awesome man. I mean we can, just geek out all day on this stuff. I wanna hear your stuff, by the way, too

Harry Morton: Uh, wha- Oh, I was about to, I was about to say my SoundCloud handle, but maybe I'll save that. We can put it in the show notes if I just, if I change my mind, but I'll share some stuff with you for sure.

Brian Casel: Okay. All right, cool. I'll, I'll share some really bad stuff that I, created a few years as well,

Harry Morton: Awesome.

Alright.

Brian Casel: Well, Harry, this is, this is a good one. Let's let's talk again soon.

Harry Morton: See on the other side

Brian Casel: all right?

Well, that wraps up today's Open Thread. Hey, tell me what you think. I'm on Twitter @casjam, and right after that, head over to iTunes and give this show a five star review. Really helps it reach more folks like us. I appreciate it. Talk to you next week.