The Health Pendulum as Entrepreneurs with Jay Clouse
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Brian: [00:00:00] you're about to hear my conversation with Jay Clouse. He returns to the show and we have a kind of a fun conversation where we talk about how we try to take care of ourselves, our health and fitness away from the cameras, the mics, and the computer screens.

Let's get into it.

So Jay Clouse returns to the show today. We continue our conversation, which we recorded on November 8th, 2023. So in this one we sort of, turn to a non business topic, which I like to do from time to time on this show. And we talked about our approach to health and fitness and trying to stay healthy when we're away from our computer screens and.

In our cases the cameras and the microphones and Twitter and all that. So it was a fun conversation, kind of sharing notes with Jay on how he thinks about this stuff. We, we talked about our home gyms and trying to stay healthy physically and mentally, we got into it all. It's a, it's, it's always a, an ongoing battle.

I know it is for me to, to stay healthy away from work. [00:01:00] So here it is. Here's that conversation with Jay enjoy. we're back here with, with Jay Clouse. we would do a fun episode today talking about health and fitness and, you know, I, I really think the way that I think about it these days as I, I'm in my, now I'm in my early forties here, I'm thinking about like, healthy for the long-term physically, but it has such an impact on my actual work and focus and energy at, at work. So, I don't know. How do you think about health and fitness where you're at in your, in your life and your career here?

Physical health = mental health
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Jay : Yeah, I, I've realized that physical wellness, physical wellbeing is the precursor to my mental health. So if I am not feeling good mentally, not feeling sharp, not feeling motivated, that's probably a trailing. outcome of not [00:02:00] moving my body enough. And so I do it now as like preventative medicine,

Brian: Same

Jay : And it's also something where I find that when my body is busy, but my mind isn't, that's where a lot of my best thinking happens.

Not that I'm like actively trying to think while those things happen, but like that's when connections are made and ideas are kind of born.

Brian: I think I've gone several years there, like going back the last few years where I would get really kind of, anxious and stressed about work, and that would That would result in me feeling like I have to work more. I have to ship this product. I have

to, I have to put in all these extra hours in the office sitting at my computer. But then when I notice that when I get back on the exercise train and eating healthier, oh, things actually start to kind of work better in my business too. It's, it's weird how that happens.

It's like if, maybe

if I, you know, replace an hour or two of computer time with some [00:03:00] physical movement, Things are actually gonna work better in in the business. It, it's a, it's a weird dichotomy.

Jay : If you think about how you experience the world, there's like almost this metaphorical lens for how you see everything around you. And I feel like when you are, I. Physically well is a different lens. Like I see the world differently. I experience things differently. Things that might bug me if I'm not feeling well mentally, that doesn't bug me if I'm feeling well physically, like I don't have a short of a fuse.

so It's, it, it changes my experience in, in my day to day.

Jay's health and fitness "stack"
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Brian: Yeah. So, in tech and products we like to talk about, like our tech stack of like, what, what do we like to build with, what tools are we're using? How about in fitness and health? What, what is your, like daily stack or your routine, if you will, of, of like how do you,

what, what are like the, the key [00:04:00] components of how you sort of like keep yourself healthy these days?

Jay : I, the, the pendulum swings back and forth between like, how well am I doing on this? And right now I'm at a point where the pendulum had swung too far in the direction of I had gotten away from exercising as much as I should. So I'm trying to change the momentum and go in the opposite direction.

So right now,

Brian: my life.

Jay : my only , my only rule for myself right now is that I wanna sweat every day. That

could be long walk. That could be a run that could be 30 minutes out in the home gym. That's all I'm trying to do is get back into the routine of, of . Moving my body every day. That's, that's the biggest thing.

Brian: that's the same one for me. And to me it's like as simple as the Apple watch, like, just close the rings, know?

Jay : yeah.

Brian: and if, if I can get to that, like, ideally seven days a week I'm, I'm doing okay. But, you know, one thing that I. That I've noticed and and like, I feel like I, I'm totally the same way with the pendulum.

[00:05:00] That's been like the story of my adult life, of going back and forth. bUt I feel like right now I happen to be like, on a pretty good track for once as, as an adult. Like, I, I lost some weight over the last couple of months and, and really getting on

and actually really starting to enjoy you know, exercise and eating healthier than, than I have in the past. But one thing that I noticed was that like I got interested in fitness and eating healthy probably four or five years ago. But I, but for all that time, I really was not losing a ton of weight. And even when I'm like active on a regular basis, it doesn't necessarily always have the, the intended result. anD it only, it wasn't until recently that I made a few small tweaks, you know, like, e even like li like lifting, like weightlifting strength training. I was doing that for over a year before I really started to actually like, see any results. And I switched to more of like a circuit training routine where, where it's a little bit faster paced and and that sort of thing.

Diet and portion control
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Brian: [00:06:00] And then like on the, on the eating side of, of things, like, again, I was eating relatively healthy stuff. You know, mostly like, like kind of protein, sort of like paleo style stuff, obviously with a lot of cheat days in there, but but it wasn't until recently when, when I started to key into like, oh, portion control, portion size, like that, that was

Jay : Yeah,

Brian: me, you know?

Jay : I need, I need to do that. I have a, I have a portion problem and I have a sugar problem.

Brian: yeah, I mean, sugar, it, it's weird. Like I, I, I started to cut out sugar for, for a long time, and even that too, like, did not have as big of an effect for me, you know, because it, I was still having

like It was the portion size for me. Like, like

I would, I would reduce sugar and, and almost entirely eliminate sugar. But if I'm taking in like an extra thousand calories that I don't need, you know, it really

has an effect.

Jay : I, this is, this is my problem. I'm a, I'm a completionist in all [00:07:00] senses of the word.

I start a book, I'm gonna

Brian: the plate.

Jay : book. If I,

if it was on the plate, I gotta finish it. It's probably a Midwest guilt thing, but my problem. I have big plates.

Brian: I was listening to an episode with with Adam Wa and, and Ben Ornstein, and they were talking about especially Adam has been on this health journey for a while, and he, he something that he shared really, really keyed in for me, which was like like pre-plan, the, the portions in every meal. You know, like, like we do Taco Tuesdays in my house, like I'm only gonna have like two small tacos and like that.

I'm gonna be done with that. You know, like Uh, that, that's been helpful. But still it's, it's the snacking in the middle of the day, in the middle of the work workday.

That, that kills me. 'cause it's like, for so long, and I still struggle with this today, which is like, I totally associate taking a break from my work with literally going in the, in the room right behind me and grabbing a snack,

Jay : Mm.

Brian: know? And I'm still trying to, to work on that one.[00:08:00]

How about like,

Jay : the highlight of my day.

Brian: Yeah. It's like

I get so

Jay : the problem.

​

Morning person/Night troll?
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Brian: for dinner. You know? It's, it's, it's terrible. hOw about like, time of day? Like, are you a morning person? Are you, when are you doing exercise and when are you doing like, important work during your day?

How do, how do you cycle through the, through your energy?

Jay : I work best in the morning for sure.

If you, if you give me two mor two hours in the morning, that's like worth four hours in the afternoon to me, so I, I try to get . Into work pretty early on in the day. But I also do really feel great when I work out in the morning and it feels like, well, I've already checked that box for the day.

I, I'm typically able to do more and I enter the workday pretty energized. But the key to making both of those things true, it's getting up pretty early and that's the struggle for me. So [00:09:00] typically it's one or the other. I,

Brian: I'm the

same exact way. I, I'm, I'm very much a morning person. I do wake up pretty early, naturally at this point. But it's like I, sometimes it's the tension because I definitely do my best. Creative work or technical work in the morning, like that is definitely like, it's almost like I have like 10 x the superpowers than, than I have in the afternoon hours.

And that's not just because of coffee, although I am a coffee, a total addict. But even before coffee, like I am super sharp as soon as I wake up. That usually happens in the morning, but I feel like if I don't get the exercise in first thing in the morning, like before everything, then it's probably not gonna happen.

Jay : It is just not gonna happen.

Brian: yeah.

Jay : Yeah, I mean that, that's why I try to keep the expectations for myself of what exercise is pretty low, because like today, I haven't worked out yet. Today I'm feeling pretty tired after, after our conversation here, I've gotta run to the airport [00:10:00] and drop something off and come back.

So I'm still gonna get my exercise in today, but it might be like a short bike ride. It might be a walk around the neighborhood. If on my like open creative days, that's typically when I'll work out first in the morning because that's also like part of my creative process. That's when I can start think through things and I find, especially with long walks, if I do, if I walk for like 45 minutes or close to an hour, by the time I'm coming back to the house, I have taken a bunch of notes on my phone.

I have like organized my day of like, here are the next six things I need to do. I feel like I have momentum entering into it. , but it's better for me to use that momentum into creative work than like take that momentum, sit down and just do like a day full of calls.

Brian: Yeah, the thing that I still really struggle with is going to bed at a reasonable hour. and and it's like, 'cause I I am a morning person naturally, and I'm gonna wake up early no matter what. So I. I [00:11:00] actually sleep pretty well overall, but I just, something about the evening hours, you know, my wife and I will, we'll watch a Netflix show or two, but then even after that, like then she'll go to bed and then I spend another hour or two hours binging YouTube and, and like going, you know, like doing stuff like that or, or, or watching podcasts on YouTube and, and just like,

Jay : Yeah,

Brian: you know, why am I still up at midnight or, or 11 o'clock?

Like, like, you know, like, why, like. It's just eating into my sleep, which I know is so important.

Jay : Yeah,

Brian: yeah, I gotta work on that one for sure.

Jay : I've, I've started to turn the dial on that I'm getting better at going to bed earlier, which helps me wake up earlier. That's the secret. You wanna wake up early, go to bed early.

Brian: Yeah. There we go.

Jay : It's pretty simple. It's pretty obvious, but so hard to do. . Have you heard that, that article that's like have, there is this term for, it's called like sleep revenge or something. This, this, this idea where like at night people procrastinate from going to sleep because they [00:12:00] felt like all day they did not have agency over their day. So now they

Brian: I, you know, I

Jay : that agency at night.

Brian: I think there's some element of that for me, for sure. It's, it's not like I'm trying to get work done at night. I, I definitely

can't, like I need the re, the Consumption mode at night, like Netflix and maybe some YouTube and

stuff. But like, and I think, I actually think that that's like important, like to have that balance. But yeah, there's definitely part of me that's just like, like, oh, I can't finish this day before consuming something. 'cause, 'cause I want to, I wanna like squeeze the most juice out of this day. Some somehow, you know, I don't know. But

Jay : Well, there is something too, if you I saw this in college. We looked at the study that was looking at like the efficacy of. Online learning which is ironic because that's like the world we're both living in and people found, they found that brain activity is like lowest when you're watching something, consuming something on a [00:13:00] screen.

And so I think there's actually like something about . Consuming that slows down your brain and gets you more ready to sleep. Because a lot of people say, I can't sleep. 'cause my mind is like racing. me, I watch like two hours of TV and I'm, I'm out

Brian: Well, that, I mean, that's the, that's, that's why I, I do the consumption at night, right? Like, I, I can't get into building the product at night or working on like,

business strategy at night. 'cause that, that will definitely keep me up all night. I'll, I'll just stop, keep thinking about it, but. Yeah. I Mean, I feel like we can talk forever about about health stuff. But I, I will let you go. I think this is a fun episode. Jay, it was great to, great to connect with you and you know, creator Science. We're gonna get everything linked up in the show notes. I'm gonna keep

tuning into that to to learn about the, the mechanics of being a creator.

Jay : Cool. Thanks for having me. Good luck on swinging the pendulum.

Brian: All right, Jay, have a good one.

Jay : Thanks, man.