YouTube as a business
===

Brian: [00:00:00] You're about to hear my conversation with Aaron Francis, where we talk about YouTube as a business. Let's get into it.

So my friend, Aaron Francis is back on the show today. I'm about to roll our conversation, which we recorded on November 16th, 2023. In this one, we talked all about building a YouTube channel and treating that as the core of our business.

At the time we recorded this, I was just getting geared up in the planning and plotting stage of my YouTube channel for instrumental products. And and Aaron has been an expert in this area for some time. So it was a really fun time for me to to, to kind of pick Aaron's brain on all things video and of course, screencasting and and production and all of that kind of stuff.

So it's a good conversation. Here we go. Here is that chat with Aaron talking all about video and YouTube. Enjoy. [00:01:00]

So back here with, with Aaron Francis and Aaron, welcome back.

Talking video and screencasting.com
---

Aaron: Yeah. Good to be here. I'm ready, I'm ready to talk video.

Brian: Yeah, for sure. I mean, you released screencasting.com, which is, which looks fantastic. The, the course on video, it seems like it's more than literally like, screen casting. It's like video production, if you will.

Aaron: Yeah.

Yeah. I think it's video production from your desk, so like,

whether that's, you know, talking head or screen casting or whatever. Yeah.

Brian: It's fantastic domain though.

Aaron: Yeah. Thanks.

Brian: And so, I mean, the, the course is, is really cool. I wanna get into that a little bit, but in, you know, in our last chat we talked about like one of my favorite quotes from what you just said from, from our previous episode here was, you know, your path to success going forward.

As you see it is not products, it's content or it, it's creating and, you know, you're growing YouTube channels, you've come out with this course. Um, so I want to kind of [00:02:00] dig into that. 'cause again, I'm in this mode, right? Right now I'm, I'm sort of in like, planning and plotting and learning mode when it, especially when it comes to YouTube specifically.

It's an area that I plan to really go deep on in, in 2024. Literally in the next room over, I've got like eight boxes of things from Amazon. I've got like a new lighting set, you know, new,

Aaron: Oh, I've, I've been following along on Twitter as you, as you're soliciting advice

and pictures and stuff. I'm excited for you.

Brian: I'm, I'm pretty excited about it. So I, I I, I definitely wanna like, pick your brain about

strategy and how you are thinking about growing your stuff.

I mean, why don't we start here? Like, I, I heard you say on your podcast a couple weeks back that you have a goal of, I think it was hitting a hundred thousand subscribers on, on YouTube.

Aaron: Yep.

Growing multiple YouTube channels
---

Brian: And you're growing a couple of different channels. You, you have like your, your personal channel you work with planet scale.

Aaron: Yep.

Brian: I think you launched a, a new one, like the building in public channel kind of thing.

Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a behind the scenes channel that I don't expect [00:03:00] to go anyways. That's another channel for just our friends to hang out on basically.

Brian: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, why don't we start here though? Like what, when you say like, you have a goal of a hundred thousand subscribers

Aaron: Mm-Hmm.

Brian: what's behind that goal? Like what, what is the driving force? I know that you're like creating on video, it definitely plays to your strength and you're, and you're really great at it.

But beyond that, like in terms of your, like what you would like to achieve here. It like, is it, is it the game of hitting a hundred k? Is it fame, is it monetizing through ads? Is it monetizing through products that you can sell to an audience? Like how, what, what's, what's kind of driving that goal?

Aaron: Yeah, I, and I think it's interesting 'cause we can talk about it from two separate angles. We can talk about it from a corporate angle of planet scale and we can talk about it from a personal angle of Aaron Francis. And I think generally, generally they're the same. But there are specifics that are different in terms of is [00:04:00] it fame?

I would much rather be rich than famous. That's for sure. So it's not, it's not fame. I think hitting a hundred thousand subscribers on, I'm going for both personal and planet scale channels. That's the goal for both. I think that is I think that is Let's see, directionally correct as a goal. I don't think there's anything magical about a hundred thousand subscribers except that you get A YouTube plaque.

which is really cool, and I super want that, but I don't think there's anything magical about it. But I think that does like that sets, there's this, there's this notion of like the commander's intent. Like what is the, what is the intent? At the end of the day, the, the intent of the, at the end of the day is to reach, let's say, the top of this hill or to take this town or whatever the commander wants, right? How you get there is, is open for negotiation. Like, okay, you encounter a roadblock. Let's back up. Let's get, you know, let's go back this way. But you know what the goal is, you know [00:05:00] where you are headed. And for me, having somewhere that's like kind of far out on the horizon helps me know that is where I'm headed.

And I think I. I think the interesting thing about that goal is along the way, I'm going to encounter a lot of opportunities because of that. So let's say for example that my goal instead was to get a sponsored video for $5,000, right? If that was my goal, I don't exactly know how to get there, but if my goal is create enough content that is good enough to reach a hundred thousand subscribers, I guarantee

you I'm gonna find some sponsors along the way

and that that's what I'm looking for.

It's like, okay, directionally enough good content to hit a hundred, a hundred thousand subscribers, and we'll just pick up opportunities along the way as we go.

Brian: I, I really like that. I, it resonates a lot. I don't think so much about like the number a hundred K, but I, I do start to think about numbers and I, this remains to [00:06:00] be seen. I, I, I have to learn and see how this develops, but like my little channel that I've, I. that I've not taken seriously for years has just accumulated like 2000 subscribers.

Right? So I would love to see that grow to something like 20 or 30 K as like an initial goal in, I, I don't know, like the next six to eight months. I don't know if that's unrealistic or, or not, but

Aaron: Not

at

How many YouTube subscribers is "enough"?
---

Aaron: all.

Brian: feel like that's a level of, that's like an initial level of success on YouTube where you have enough volume that can send email subscribers into my list,

that could probably result in some form of sponsors, like sponsorship deals at least.

And potentially like the beginnings of an audience that can like come into like a, a, a product, whether it's selling a course or selling a community or something like that. I like how like, yeah. Like, I guess how, how are you thinking about growing this as a business, like monetization strategy?

Obviously [00:07:00] with, with YouTube there are, so, there are really so many different ways to go about it.

What, what's like the most interesting to you in terms of like where you would, you would like to develop things for yourself in terms

Aaron: Yeah. The most interesting to me. So I'll talk, I'll talk on the personal side. The planet skill side is very obvious. We're a database company and I make database videos.

And so the goal there is like we need more people to learn about planet scale. And so I'm gonna make good videos about databases and teach them about planet scale.

That's easy. So less interesting. So the interesting thing I think is on the personal side. And where does, where does the money come? I think there are. I think there are a ton of companies that struggle, you probably know this, that struggle with creating content. I mean, this used to be your business, right? There are a ton of companies that just want to be out in front of people. And creating really high quality content in-house is hard. Like people are, people are busy. And so there's this huge opportunity for [00:08:00] the people who have the content to pair up with the companies that want it out there. And so for me, what I've found so far is even now, I think my personal channels at like 11 or 12,000 companies are reaching out to me being like, we will pay you good money, many thousands of dollars to create a video about our thing. And that is really interesting to me because

what I can

Brian: at like 11 K subscribers,

Aaron: oh Yeah.

for sure. Yeah.

And we're talking like $5,000 to make a video. It's like, oh. That's real money. Like

I could, I could,

do that.

Brian: That how different niches and different industries on YouTube are valued so differently. Right. And, and I think that we happen to be in one of the higher value spaces

like, like developer, tech startup business, um, you know, where, where advertisers are are literally willing to pay more per whatever, a thousand impressions, you know?

Aaron: Yep, yep. Exactly. And you know, [00:09:00] the, the YouTube, uh, the YouTube AdSense dollars, I don't even think about

because it could be many tens of dollars

and it's like,

that's definitely not

worth it. Yeah. They're on and I think I've, you know, I've made maybe $500 so far

over several months and it's like, I don't know if that's worth it.

Brian: I, I

Aaron: then I think the other thing,

Brian: least interesting

thing to me is

Aaron: I. In fact, now that you've asked, I'm thinking maybe I should just turn those off. I think the other

Brian: I wonder if, I wonder if YouTube, I wonder if it impacts the algorithm at all. If you turn

Aaron: I know, uh,

that's, that's what I don't know. I would have to research that. 'cause if they don't want to push, if they don't wanna push videos that don't make YouTube money,

I don't know.

The, the other thing that's interesting to me is like long-term, kinda like brand sponsorship deals, which is not like make a single video, but more like, Hey Aaron, we pay you every month and every time you make a video, you do mention something or do [00:10:00] something or say, y'all remember.

And like, I, I'm, I'm interested in that. I haven't landed any of those yet. But something that's like super off the wall that I think is viable frankly is like, I wear this T-shirt, you know, I've got eight of them. I wear this T-shirt in every single video on every single platform that I make. And I'm, I'm reaching out to that company and I'm like, Hey. I, I would love to talk about it, like check my actual order history in your Shopify and see that I've been ordering your shirts for the past five years.

Also, I, I like wear them in every video. Let's let, let me talk about it. And so that's an interesting thing to me that I'm trying to land to see if, hey, there are brands that like line up with me personally that I would feel great

talking about.

So I'm, I'm gonna see if I, I'm gonna see if I can make that work.

Brian: this is not my, my main goal, but I've always had like the random kind of creative fantasy of, of just like getting into like designing hats and designing t-shirts

and and like that, that could be like a potential like result down the road of like, just like a fun [00:11:00] side project for a month.

Like, like, you know, spin up a couple of T-shirt designs and show 'em on the YouTube channel like that, that could

Aaron: Yeah, exactly. And

there's a whole, there's a whole industry that you and I are not a part of that's like the real influencers and the

real creators and you know, they're like spinning up in-house first party products and. I think that's, that's totally

possible. Like I, I don't know what that looks like for, for us, but I think that that is a tried and true thing that has been done.

YouTube Monetization
---

Brian: The way I think about it is like a, again, like YouTube monetization is not very interesting to me, but sponsorships is something that I, I think I would certainly be open to. I still don't think that that's like my number one goal when it comes to monetization. That that seems to me more like, a nice to have something that I'm very open to having as a revenue channel.

But I would like the primary thing to be like, YouTube grows the audience and that audience comes into some paid product [00:12:00] probably in the form of a community or membership type product at, at some point down the road. You know, maybe even with, with like a live events component as well. buT yeah, like if, if, but I, I'm also thinking about this as like for 2024 to literally making this my job, right?

Like, like content creation especially on, on YouTube as like the primary operation in my business going forward. And I'm still kind of maintaining and giving some love to clarity flow. But the main thing is grow the audience 'cause. Grow that distribution channel, many different product opportunities and, and revenue opportunities can come from that.

So I'm thinking a lot about like how to actually like operationalize this like week to week. And one thing that I'm wondering about with you, 'cause you, you do develop our content, right? So, and again, going back to this concept of like not building products, not developing [00:13:00] products, software products, but creating content.

But in order to create content for developers about code, about software, you gotta be in it. So

how do you invest the time to tinker and put the hood on and get your hands dirty in the code and stay and stay up to date on the, on the latest tech and, and actually build stuff from experience that you can then bring to your audience?

Like how do you, how do you think about all that?

Aaron: Yeah. That's, that is that is the challenge, right? Because if you get too far away from it, the content then suffers. 'cause it's like, man, this isn't really applicable. One is, I think. You and I both forget how far along we are in software development and just how many thing, like how many new people are in entering the industry every single year, and how many people are on their timeline behind us, right?

And so there's this whole world of content. Like we're not, [00:14:00] frankly, I'm not teaching other senior engineers most of the time. They already know everything I'm talking about. I'm teaching a lot of people who maybe aren't as plugged in as you and I are and aren't seeing everything on Twitter all day and like following these podcasts.

And we, you know, we know everything that's going on everywhere all the time. We're not normal.

And so that's, that's part of it. The other thing is I always have, like, I always have some sort of like, you know, software development project going, whether that's even like, you know, rebuilding my personal website in Laravel that counts.

Like I,

you know, made some notes when I was doing that and I was like, oh, this would be a good topic. And it's like, okay, I'm rebuilding my site. Here's an interesting thing. Now let me take that interesting thing and kind of spin it out into a more generic example. So I take the nugget and like expand on it.

And then the other thing is like, I am very, very specific on what I teach. I teach things that I know and I don't put pressure [00:15:00] on myself to comment or have opinions on or teach things that I don't know. And there are some YouTubers that will have an opinion on everything and that's great. I don't super trust them, frankly, but like I don't, I just don't. I don't put that pressure on myself. So people will constantly ask me, can you make a comparison video of Laravel and X, Y, Z? And I just say, I cannot. I do not know X, Y, ZI, I just don't know it.

I'm not gonna pretend that I know it and I'm not gonna go learn it.

Brian: do you ever go learn something for the purpose of creating content about that? Like, like you don't nec maybe it's a framework or a library or, or a piece of tech that you don't have any experience with. Maybe you think it's interesting, but you don't have any active real projects to use it on, but it would make for a really great video.

Or you think it would really help your audience in some way? So,

so like you devote some time to learn

Aaron: yeah. I'll do.

Brian: then, and then packaging it into a video.

Aaron: Yes, I will do something. I'll, I'll do that [00:16:00] sometimes always with an angle of I have just learned this thing and like, this is my first

impression, or this is why I think it could be good or why I liked the experience and never with, I'm now the expert on this thing,

and that's just like one, that's true to who I am.

I don't want to like hold myself out to be something that I'm not. And two, it just releases all the pressure because if I hold myself out to be an expert on, you know, symphony, which is another PHP framework, and then the real symphony experts show up and they're like, Hey dude, like you missed this super obvious thing that's kind of like, oh shoot, I like that I told a lie and I got made.

But if I hold myself out as I'm a Laravel developer trying symphony, and here's what I like and what I don't like and what I found useful, it's like, hey, that's great content. I can totally see that

Imposter Syndrome as a Teacher
---

Brian: man, I gotta talk to you more often 'cause I feel like you're cutting Right, right. Through the the imposter syndrome that I constantly feel, you know, and, and especially with code, I mean, I almost never share anything related [00:17:00] to code, but I, but I code all day long, every single day.

Aaron: Yep.

Brian: And, and I'm designing, I feel a little bit more confident in, in design, but

a lot of my design work is, is done using Tailwind and JavaScript and HTML.

And, but I'm always like, I, I still feel like behind the rest of the industry on that stuff, even though the reality is I'm ahead of a, of a lot of people who are just learning it for the first time or coming into the industry or trying to bootstrap their first product, you know? And that, that's the thing that I, I, that's why I, like, I almost never currently create videos where I'm showing code or showing screenshots of my code.

'cause I feel like there's gonna be some advanced developer who's like, oh, there's such an easier way to do that, or a better way to do that. the reality is those, those developers are not gonna be tuning into my content. Like they're, you know.

Aaron: No, no. And you know, there's something about like, there, there's something that cannot be argued with and that is your experience. [00:18:00] Like, you can say, you can say like, this is the best way, or this is, let's even be more specific. This is the most performance way to do this thing in rails. And somebody can say, no, it's not.

And it's like, alright, well that sucks.

But what, what nobody, nobody can argue with is, I created this thing, or I, I wrote this code, here's why I like it. Here's why I did it.

Brian: Mm-Hmm. . Yeah.

Aaron: Like,

you, you like that?

Brian: for me to get it out the door or this, this is what, what framework sort of made sense in my

Aaron: What, what can anyone say? Anyone that, anyone that like rebuts or refutes that frankly is like, either, either actually truly being sincere and helpful and saying, that's interesting.

You might consider doing it this way. Great. Love that. Anyone that's saying you're wrong or stupid is just trying to show that they're really smart. And, and, and the way that I handle that is I say, oh yeah, that is a good way. Like, congrats.

That's great. I, I don't, I don't really care. I want to [00:19:00] acknowledge that you were very smart, but I don't, I don't really care.

Like I'm just sharing the way that I did the thing.

And I think you can get trapped by thinking I have to be the teacher that's right all the time.

And like the escape valve for that is I'm the guy that's sharing the stuff I'm learning and the stuff I'm working on.

It's like, what are you gonna say to me?

I, you can't, you can't argue with that.

Brian: Yeah. I like it, like the, the, the concept which I think needs developing as I get into YouTube next year is like. I'm not trying to teach you how to get hired by Google as an engineer, I can't do that. But what I can teach you is how to, how to design and build stuff so that you can ship and bootstrap a little product on the side and maybe it, which could be a game changer for your career.

You know?

Aaron: Yes.

Yep. Totally.

Hours & commitment in a YouTube business
---

Brian: so, we start to wrap up here, but one thing that I'm, I'm also sort of nervous about as I think about this as, as like an operation I'm, I'm thinking of it like a full-time job. What this has to look like to be able to [00:20:00] produce videos on a regular basis, uh, for a long period of time, and this probably gets into what you have in your [email protected], is like production workflow hacks,

you know, 'cause one of the things that I, I personally, I've, I've done a bit of video work in, in various things over the years, and the thing that I always get hung up on is just the clicking around and the, and the busy work and the.

Aaron: Yep.

Brian: Just grinding it out. Like I love the creative stuff. I love thinking about the script and how I'm gonna deliver something. And I also sort of love the creative editing side. But then there, but,

but in between that, and then in between that and getting it up on the site, there's all these little like, admin tasks and like, oh, you gotta package it up, you gotta upload it, you gotta do this and that.

It's like, how do you, how do you get all that stuff shipped without driving yourself crazy? It it, and like, how much are you outsourcing to it to an assistant? Like what do you, how do you think about that?

Aaron: On the, on the planet scale side, we [00:21:00] now have a full-time editor, and so he does a lot of the, I do all the rough cut, so I'll record a video and then I do all the rough cut where it's like, remove. I record basically in chunks. So I'll do like, you know, the talking head opening and I'll mess it up five or six times and I finally get a good one, and then I move on to like the first section of the screen recording and I'll mess that up a bunch and I get a good one.

And so I deliver to the editor all the good chunks, and I'm like, here you go. Like figure out transitions, graphics, all of that. And we recently got him and that's just amazing. But what's more applicable is, you know, on the personal side, how do I handle that? One of the big things that I do, that I do talk about in the course is like recording, recording in chunks, like spread the workload of editing, like spread it over the recording and the editing process. Such that when you do get to the editing process, it is a lot easier because you've already, like, you've already borne some of that brunt in the recording process. And what I mean by that is. I try to, I try [00:22:00] to section out my videos into, into their chunks where I know that there's gonna be a cut at the end. So like, maybe I'm explaining something on camera and then I'll switch to the screen or vice versa. And if I can nail a single chunk, it is way, way, way better for me personally to record that one minute, two minute chunk, six or eight times. Then record it in like ten second parts where I'm like,

then I have to go in and slice and dice and chop it up.

And then the video looks really choppy and it's, I've got all these edits

Brian: So it might take five or six takes, but just do the takes until you get one complete good one.

Aaron: Do the takes till you get one complete good one that probably is gonna be more concise. Like

the, the message you're trying to get across is going to be clearer, but also the editing is just gonna be a breeze. 'cause you're like, boom, one, one cut at the beginning, one cut at the end, let's move

on. And so that's one way that I do it. And then the other way that like the, the rest of it is like just getting, [00:23:00] I I do my own editing personally and getting good at, at screen flow has just been a massive, massive life improvement for me. And one of the things that I think we potentially would both fall into is like going down the rabbit hole of, of tools

and

Brian: gonna ask you about this

Aaron: I, I've, I've stuck.

Brian: go-to for like 10 plus years at this point. But I, but I'm, again, I'm, I'm in this like, research learning mode and now I'm YouTubing about like Da Vinci Resolve and or Adobe Premier

or Final Cut. Like, what's your experience with, with those more quote unquote professional tools versus what you can do with, with ScreenFlow?

Aaron: Yeah. What I can do with screen flow is what I need to do. I think there are, there are other things, like our editor uses Premier and I think I think he can do a lot more than I can. But he's also had, you know, 10 years of Premier.

And so for me, like I've purposefully capped myself at ScreenFlow for now, I've purposefully capped myself at ScreenFlow [00:24:00] because I can get the output that I'm looking for and I am really, really fast at it. And I think if I were to open up the box of Premier, I would get sucked in pretty hard. So one, it would be initial drop off in productivity. 'cause I'm just like. Oh man, I gotta learn what all these panels are. But then the second thing would be like, okay, now, now that the, the world of, you know, let's say motion graphics, 'cause I start doing after effects too.

Now that that's open to me, everything becomes more complicated. And I feel like everything needs to go up a level where right now I'm having success with screen flow

and so I just make my, you know, my adorable little videos and screen flow and ship them out the door.

Staying authentic on YouTube
---

Brian: Yeah. Nice. I'Ve heard you talk about this before and, and another thing that resonates is. Like doing well on YouTube, optimizing your content for reach without feeling like you're selling an infomercial or [00:25:00] doing a super cheesy thumbnail graphic. That, that totally resonates with me. The shocked face, like I, I just don't wanna get into that game,

Aaron: Yep.

Brian: I, I think that there is a way to do it tastefully that's actually authentic to, to me, and maybe, and, and the topic of the actual video, right?

Aaron: Yeah.

Brian: yeah. Like

Aaron: Yeah. It's, it's it's a, it's a challenge to me because. Man, like the, I think the platform demands certain things and you see basically what the platform demands by scrolling your feed on, on YouTube and noticing what shows up. And like, that's kind of what the platform demands. And what I don't like that the platform seemingly demands is shock and awe.

And I just don't think everything that I'm teaching is either shocking or awe inspiring. Like, I want it to be interesting and I want it to be entertaining, but I'm just not gonna, I'm just not gonna pretend to be surprised about something that I'm just, I'm not, frankly, very [00:26:00] surprised about. So that, like, that poses a, you know, kind of a moral dilemma to me to like, do I trick people into clicking or not? And the answer so far for me has been, no, I'm not, I'm not gonna do that. That does, however, that doesn't, that doesn't give me like permission to not. Taken to consideration how I get people to click.

So like if I'm gonna hold constant that there are things that I'm not gonna compromise on, which is like, I'm not gonna do the pretend shock face. Okay, well dude, what are you gonna do? How are you gonna get people to click?

And that is still very, very, very much a question

to me of like, how do you package all of this?

Brian: the thing that I'm getting really interested. In, in the creative process of YouTube right now. As a, again, I'm sort of learning and planning at this point is like treating every single next video as a product in it, in and of itself, it's, you're, you're literally

creating and launching your, a [00:27:00] new product like on a weekly basis or however you're, however often you're doing it.

And, and a lot of that comes down to like, who is this for? What problem is it solving? And how do we connect with the, with the potential buyer or viewer in this case? And like, that could start with the, I I think a lot of, a lot of YouTubers are, are talking about this concept of like, start with the thumbnail and the title before you even create the video.

Like start with the concept of, of what someone is gonna click on and then deliver on that promise, you know, from

Aaron: Yeah. I mean

that, that's, that's what I do. I don't necessarily make the thumbnail, but the first thing that I do is think what is the title and what is the thumbnail? And not just like, what is it, but like, what is the packaging and then what video can I produce to deliver on that packaging so I can come up with really, really great packaging that everyone would click on. And then if I don't deliver in the video, then I have[00:28:00] I have crossed one of my personal ethical boundaries, which is I've basically just lied to everybody.

And so how can I create

compelling packaging?

Brian: on YouTube anyway, like.

Aaron: No, eventually you'll, eventually, you'll fail. You'll, you'll flame out because the watch time's gonna be super low.

'cause people are gonna realize, oh, it's just

clickbait. So like, how can I, I basically start with a concept of like, what am I trying to teach? Great. Okay, let's, let's back up. Let's move up a level. Is there an interesting way to package this? Is there an edutainment way to package this education plus entertainment to package the core idea that I want to teach? And that's where you have to, that's where you have to get creative and think like, okay, well what is interesting about this? What is clever about this? How can I hook people into this? Like I have a, I have a Planet skill video coming out soon that's called, you Don't Need Joins. Like it's a database concept of joining tables together.

And the title is, you Don't Need Joins. And I back it up in the video that sometimes you are doing something with a join when [00:29:00] really you should be using a subquery. And it's like, oh. That's interesting, but like, how to use subqueries is not very good packaging. Right.

You don't need joins And, and then I go, yeah, and then I go into these use cases of like, here are the, you know, 3, 4, 5 use cases where you're using a join and you shouldn't be using a join.

It's

like, oh, okay. That backs it up. That's good packaging. So it is hard, it is very hard to get good packaging for a pretty normy like basic idea.

Brian: Yeah. Well, hey, Aaron, this is another great conversation. Great to connect with you. It, it, I'm super excited about everything that you are working on and especially like I've been following you for some time, but I feel like the upcoming year and couple years here in terms of the things that you are growing now are super interesting to, to follow

Aaron: Oh, thanks. yeah, I really, I really appreciate that. That means a lot. Thank you.

Brian: Cool. All right. See you.

Aaron: See ya.