Brian Casel: [00:00:00] It's Open Threads. I'm Brian Casel. It's my podcast. Welcome to it. Today, my friend Ian Landsman is back on the show. We're going to continue our conversation. And, you know, if there's any friend who I feel comfortable enough to venture into some conversation around news, world news, even into a little bit of politics, it would be Ian. He's one of the few friends of mine who is not only a news junkie, just like I am, but he's much more open and public about what he's thinking on various topics in that realm much more than I am. I am a news junkie, but I just don't share as much publicly like on Twitter and whatnot. But part of the reason I started this podcast was to get into topics like this, that, that I am interested in talking about and thinking about and learning different perspectives on.

Although to be honest, Ian and I probably share many of the same [00:01:00] opinions. Some different, but anyway, I thought it was a really good chat talking about specifically news diets and where we get most of our information from and how we balance what we're paying attention to and who we're paying attention to.

So anyway, I hope you enjoy it. And if this sort of stuff is not your thing, yeah, you can skip it. Tune in next week. We'll be talking about something completely different. That's OpenThreads for you. For now, let's talk news with Ian.,

it's fun, kind of speculating about this stuff. I'm going to do like a hard turn into this other segment. This won't be a long one. I'm trying to find opportunities to talk about topics that are outside of our normal software startup land. And all right. So here's just a random thing that I've been thinking about lately, right?

Like in terms of news consumption, news diets, right? I know you're a fellow news [00:02:00] junkie like, like I am, you're much more public about it on Twitter than I'm willing to. There's so many like political tweets and stuff that I end up deleting and don't put out there, but

Ian Landsman: it's probably better.

Brian Casel: All right. So I've, I've been a paying subscriber to the New York times for many years now.

And I do follow a lot of news outlets, but that's, I think that's the only one that I actively pay for. But lately, more and more, I've been feeling like. Not that I'm going to unsubscribe from the Times, but it's not fulfilling the, the job to be done for me anymore. Like, I feel like I need to expand the range of, of news that I'm consuming.

You know, most people are like, Oh, I need to quit news for a while. I'm not looking to get more news. I'm just looking for more variety of opinion, I think. And there was a time a couple of years back where everyone, they still hate on the Times. But everyone, you know, for a long time, like, [00:03:00] oh, NYT is way leaning left and they're so biased and all this stuff.

And I didn't really buy into that for so long, like you could make your arguments about the opinion writers, but I mean, the actual news, you know, I'm like, no, there's still some of the best journalists in the world. And if you want to find out what's happening in the world, you look at the front page of the New York times.

That's been my attitude, but I feel like in recent times, that's less and less true. And they're like major world happenings or. Or just things that should be reported on that are not making it into the front page of the New York Times that I think should, and it just has me thinking, like, what am I missing?

What should I be expanding into? Anyway, the question that I have for you is like, what is your news diet kind of look like these days?

Ian Landsman: Um, well, all right. Well, in terms of things we pay for, we pay for the times and the Washington post and the Atlantic, I think. And I would say the times, the main draw of the times, actually, my wife loves to read the physical [00:04:00] paper on the weekend.

So we get the Sunday times, getting the hands dirty. I like to be like. Is in there reading the paper old school style But then obviously it lets you like read online or whatever Like I don't ever really go to the home page of newyorktimes. com or anything like that Or even the watching post. I mean, I think the two main like Ongoing sources would be just twitter people.

I follow. I mean I follow enough Political people and news people that I feel like, I mean, Twitter is still like the fastest way to get news. I feel like there's nothing faster than Twitter. Um, and then I actually really like, and this is like, you know, strong feelings on this possibly, but I really like Google news.

Like I actually think Google news does a pretty good job of like,

Brian Casel: so it's like curating different

Ian Landsman: Yeah, like if you go to news. Google. com, I think it is, like, they just curate and, you know, they're tracking your butt all over the place. So, like, they know what you're reading and everything, but then they're feeding you, like, I think they do a good job of, like, showing other types of [00:05:00] things.

Like, they're definitely showing you the stuff you, it knows you're interested in. But I do think you get like, here's an often like on a big story. There's like the main one, but then there's like multiple other sub links to different news outlets and things. And then there's, um, topics, which I would never have searched out, which it shows like usually farther down.

So like, that's usually where I'll scroll through.

Brian Casel: I never started using Apple News, which I guess is a similar concept, right? To that they sort of,

Ian Landsman: yeah, I didn't really got into that either. I don't know. It was also hard to share links from it or something like, it always links to Apple News links and I find Don't work or something.

Yeah. So I don't know.

Brian Casel: Yeah, I mean, I, I sometimes check the headlines on, like on the Washington Post, the ones that I make the daily Rounds are like, I do go through the whole, basically the homepage of the New York Times. and rabbit hole into different places from there. And then Axios is the other one that I read a lot.

I like the format, how they do like the bullet points and very concise. I also like that, like, and I'm sure [00:06:00] many people on the right or conservative would disagree with this, but like, I find them to be pretty close to center down the middle, like just the facts. Just give me the news. And that's what really turns me off about

Ian Landsman: people don't want that, right?

Like the reality is people don't want that. Like, that's the reality. That's the unfortunate.

Brian Casel: It's like, the reality is I do in terms of reading the New York times, I spend more, most of my time there reading opinions, right? Right. That's where I feel like I'm missing real big picture on all the major stuff going on.

Like other ones that I'm interested in and now are. Like I'm reading the morning brew more than I used to the newsletter, which I'm sure just, they just curate from all the major news, but like that too, feels like a little bit down the middle.

Ian Landsman: Yeah. Bloomberg actually really like

Brian Casel: Bloomberg was the other one that I don't hate

Ian Landsman: letter.

That's pretty good. You have to be a paying member.

Brian Casel: I'm not a paying member on there. That's the one that I was looking at actually this week. Like if I'm going to pick up a new subscription, like Bloomberg [00:07:00] might be the one where it's like, it sort of gives me like a different balance of what I'm getting from New York times, you know,

Ian Landsman: The Bloomberg newsletter, that's like a morning and evening newsletter.

I think we do like is super good. Like, cause it's like just a paragraph on like three paragraphs with like the. Each one's like the top story, you know, a top story type thing, and then other stuff in there. And that does a really good job too. I really like that a lot.

Brian Casel: How about like tech news? Like what are you following?

Ian Landsman: Uh, I mean, I just like follow Twitter . Like, I mean, I don't really follow, follow too much. I'm news, you know what, I actually, I do pay for news. I'm, I mean, I'm following everybody on Twitter who I, I'm interested in the, in the tech I'm interested in. So I'm kind of like, yeah, I don't really go other places for that.

Brian Casel: I am a fan of reading John Grubers. I don't agree with his opinions on everything, you know? And he's like a super like Apple, Apple obsessed journalist, I guess. But him and Ben Thompson, who runs strict techery, he's awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

Ian Landsman: He's the other thing I subscribed to see if I knew I was going to [00:08:00] have a list of subscriptions, Ben Thompson, the two of them, like subscribe to that.

That's like amazing.

Brian Casel: I don't think that I subscribed to strict techery, but I subscribed to their podcast. Okay. Their paid podcast, uh, dithering. And that's pretty cool. It's like, I think it's like twice a week, exactly 15 minute episodes, just talking about like, whatever the main, the major, uh, story,

Ian Landsman: all tech stuff.

Yeah, no, uh, if you're interested in the tech, like strategery or however he says it, I don't know. The name is horrible, but he's the best. Like the analysis is so good. Like expose me to all kinds of interesting things. So definitely do that. And that's just pure tech.

Brian Casel: Really? Where are you out on like television?

Like, are you like anti news?

Ian Landsman: Oh, no, uh, yeah, television news. No, not really doing too much TV news. I have that old man nostalgia for like, just throw me some Peter Jennings for half an hour, an hour at night. Like that would be great, but I don't know. It doesn't really exist [00:09:00] anymore. And it kind of doesn't fit into modern life exactly for like at six 30, we're all sitting there and we're going to watch Peter Jennings.

Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know.

Brian Casel: I've definitely moved away. I, you know, years ago I was a junkie for all things, politics and, and all that. I still follow it, but like, I've definitely become a lot more turned off by. Mainstream television news. So like MSNBC, CNN, Fox, you know, I'm just not in that camp. I can't watch that.

Ian Landsman: Right. But the, um, but even the other ones are sort of unwatchable from a, like, not necessarily extremist perspective, but even just the, like, there's something about the format that doesn't work for me.

Brian Casel: Yeah. And, and just anything that is so clearly like you're preaching to the choir is not interesting to me at all.

You know, like anything after whatever, seven or 8 PM at night is not. I mean, I don't have cable anymore, but in terms of like getting

Ian Landsman: the opinion shows, plus I feel like that's where I feel like Twitter's replaced a lot for me. Like, I get everybody's opinion. [00:10:00] I hear everybody's opinion with both sides.

Like, you know what? There are a few times a day. I got it.

Brian Casel: There are some television shows that I think still do a good job of this. Like I, I do. Tune in to a real time with Bill Maher, like almost, and you know, there's going to be people who are like, Oh, like I hate that guy or that show or whatever. But I feel like that is one of the few shows where he actively invites opposing opinions to a table to legitimately like debate a topic.

You know, it's kind of crazy to me how. How little of that there is on television and podcasts and whatever else

Ian Landsman: like they're not going to even have debates at the presidential.

Brian Casel: That's insane to me. You know, and

Ian Landsman: we're not having any debates anymore. Just hash it out on Twitter.

Brian Casel: It's just insane. Like, just if you believe in an opinion, as everyone obviously does, why don't you go fight it out?

You know, and try to win the argument. I don't know why that is not a more popular thing.

Ian Landsman: I think because it's all about like, it's not about like collaborating to the [00:11:00] best solution, which ultimately even a debate is sort of theoretically about, right? It's just about like, you have your talking points that are known to work and against the targets, your targets, which are your constituency.

And you don't want anything to risk being off message, right? Your message is. Obviously Trump had very specific messages, right? About who's bad and what they're doing wrong and all that stuff. And like, what's the point of opening that up and letting even those people hear another perspective? Like you want to just keep them in the echo chamber.

So I mean, I think it makes total sense from the diabolical minds that are involved.

Brian Casel: Like a strategic political mind. I sort of get it. But at the same time, it's like,

Ian Landsman: Is it good for the country? No, it's not.

Brian Casel: Yeah. And I actually do think that like, It turns off. I don't know if there's actual polls to reflect this, but like, I think that there's a growing middle, middle of the road voter.

I feel like I'm very much in that camp and I'm like, gettable who can make an argument, but like, and then I get [00:12:00] turned off by the extremes on both sides. Right? So, and I feel like if, if these parties actually start to try to bring the argument to the middle, like that would,

Ian Landsman: But the problem is that that's not how.

The structure of the parties, like the primaries and stuff are not built around any of that, right? The primaries are not built around the middle They're only they're literally built around the extremes because they're built around the people who will vote on may 14th in an off year for some random dude like that like when nobody's paying attention and that's going to be the like fringe elements a lot and so I think that that's why, that's why it's all kind of got leverage up here in large part.

Cause the system is not built for that kind of nuance discussion or middle ground and stuff.

Brian Casel: I guess I watch like the daily show more, more of like news. That's sort of like entertaining.

The only other TV thing that I watch is The Circus on Showtime.

Ian Landsman: Oh, I don't even know what that is.

Brian Casel: Uh, you know, uh, John Heilman. [00:13:00] So he produces it. It's him and like three other hosts. I forgot their names, but it's like. Two that are like left wing two that are more right wing and they all co host. And basically it's not like an opinion show, but they're just sort of like.

Reporting on the big stories this week. And then they talk to both Democrat and Republican and other people involved. Like, and it's really, really well produced in terms of like the cinematography and the way that they put it together. It's pretty cool. But like, it's just like one of the few things where it's like, wow, you actually hear opposing.

It's like, I'm not going to agree with half the things that are talked about here, but it's. At least I'm exposed to it, you know?

Ian Landsman: Yeah. No, it's, and it's hard because it's also like, I mean, like people who follow my Twitter feed probably think I'm quite far left, but I'm actually really not like in my actual opinions, I'm actually not that far left, but I am like very far left in terms of like, I'm very opposed to Donald Trump.

So like that comes off as a certain perspective and, but that doesn't mean like I might have more [00:14:00] nuanced positions on fiscal policy or abortion even, or all kinds of things. Yeah. There is this also this element right now of like.

Brian Casel: I'm the same way. Like in my life, I've tended to, to vote left, but I find myself now, especially in the last couple of years, more and more just disagreeing with more of the policies and people on the left, but I'm still in a place where like.

There's no world where I can vote for the GOP. Like, that's just not going to happen.

Ian Landsman: Right, but it does feel like there should be some options, like

Brian Casel: They've gone off the edge of the cliff, whereas like, on the left, they're becoming a little bit more crazy, but still, still in the realm of sanity. This is where I get, where I'm like, I'm gettable.

If any of the sane Republicans break off and

Ian Landsman: somebody normal. Sure. Right.

Brian Casel: Or no, but I mean, like, if they were to break off and I know a third party is like impossible in this country, but like, if that were to gain traction, I'm the market that they could get. And I feel like [00:15:00] there's a lot of people here, you know?

Ian Landsman: Yeah, but the thing is, it's all sort of instructions that they don't need you. Like that's the thing, right? Like they win without majorities. And so they haven't, I mean, you have to have overwhelming, overwhelming efforts. So hopefully that could happen in areas, especially around Trump. It seems impossible that it could be like this forever, ongoing for a long time, but maybe it can be, I don't know.

I do think it's like, I've been a huge loss in just in terms of news to like. When you had, and I'm sure, like, they weren't straight, straight news people, but like, ultimately, like, when everyone agreed on what the facts are, you know, yeah, like, it's like, if Dan Rather and Peter Jennings and the other guy, Brokaw, they're all kind of giving you the same thing, and they're trying to at least play it sort of straight, and I'm sure they had their biases and blah, blah, blah.

But like, everybody watched that, everybody had a similar set of facts. And then you could go to like your opinion places to get the [00:16:00] opinions. There's always magazines or whatever, like where people could get their stronger opinions and that's fine. But you could kind of operate off core set of facts.

Whereas like without the core set of facts, it's just a freaking free for all.

Brian Casel: So I don't know. And just like a different set, like, yes, we might disagree on like, whatever tax policy or foreign policy. But like, that's just. Our opinions on that. It's not like life and death the way that it seems like it is today.

Anyway, well, yeah For the few people who are still tuning into this political chatter on this, like sort of business podcast.

Ian Landsman: I like, I like a podcast that wanders from its core premise. Like, yeah, you can't have it be too on the nose.

Brian Casel: That's literally why those are boring. I named this thing open threads for that purpose.

It can go in any direction. So that's, that's what this is.

Ian Landsman: No, I listened to very few podcasts that are like, this is what we talk about. Every single, I basically listened to none except there were watchables because I love movies and. Even that it's kind of different every time. 'cause it's

Brian Casel: Is that the thing from like Bill Simmons and all that?

Yeah, yeah. Bill [00:17:00] Simmons. Yeah.

Ian Landsman: That's the best podcast out there.

Brian Casel: That's, and you know what, that's another news. I do read The Ringer, just the website just to get like random, like, it's so funny how they mix culture. They mix like culture and TV with like NBA news, right? . Like that's like the whole site, you know?

Ian Landsman: Yeah, no, I mean that's pretty funny. That's kind of genius, right? Yeah. You like figured out that like those groups overlap. There's an overlap. Overlap heavily and. It's worked. Yeah. I bought like 200 million, right?

Brian Casel: Well, Hey, Ian, uh, it was great. Uh, great to kind of ramble about random stuff here. Yeah. I love it.

Have to have you back on and we'll figure out some other random topic to cover.

Ian Landsman: I'm always available to talk about nothing. Just let me know. Awesome.